Video: Carbon Reduction Isn’t Just About Operational Emissions

(Nancy Kammerer speaks)

Speaker today is Lisa Conway. She serves as VP of sustainability of America's for interface, the global flooring manufacturer that is leading that is leading industry to love the world. She and her team are responsible for regional activation of the company's mission, climate take back. She's passionate about bringing awareness to the interconnectedness of environmental sustainability and human health to drive understanding of impact of carbon on human health, Lisa and her team provide educational programming around the need for transparency and prioritization of embodied carbon in specifications within the building industry. She co-founded the material carbon Action Network in 2018 to mobilize this effort. Lisa also serves on the sustainability advisory board for Penn State University’s Smeal College of Business. I'm hoping I'm pronouncing that correctly Lisa. [inaudible] coordinates, 36 under 36 in 2015.

(Nancy Kammerer speaks)

Lisa

(Lisa Conway speaks)

Thank you so much. Your bio always seems short until someone's reading it out loud. Looks short on a page. But thank you so much and I'm, I'm thrilled to be with all of you today to talk about a topic that I'm both personally passionate about, as well as our company Interface. So as you heard, we are a global flooring manufacturer, which is kind of interesting because no-one rose up saying, I want to work for a flooring manufacturer. But I think a lot of us grow up thinking that we want to make a difference in the world. And luckily I get to do that at a flooring manufacturer. And so I'm going to add a little bit of context as to what climate take back actually means. So the name of the session is that carbon reduction is not just about operational emissions. And we're talking there about carbon emissions from operating buildings, which we really understand even at just a consumer level, about saving energy at home, it might not be renewable energy. So I'm gonna give a little bit of information on how a flooring company got to having reversing global warming be its mission, which is what we call climate take back and share a survey that we conducted in collaboration with Net Impact. Which is a climate organization that actually is very, very active within the university communities. One of the questions that we asked before setting this mission in the survey was, Do you believe that we can take back our climate and actually make a climate that is fit for lif? As you kind of heard in our bio or in my bio. I'm really passionate about making the tie between things that seem very environmental and connecting that to what it means to people. So a climate fit for life really means for all life, including us. And overwhelmingly, the answer was yes. It would be difficult, but possible. Only 5% thought no things have already gone too far and they've gone far. Don't get me wrong about that. But it is still possible to reverse global warming. Another question that we asked, and these questions were asked of both climate experts and young leaders. To the, I'm sorry to the same question. Young leaders, this slide kind of cracks me up because it says the next generation of business leaders was less optimistic. So only 91% of them, which is still, you know, I'm not a gambling girl, but those are pretty good odds. 91% of our young leaders thought that it would be difficult but possible. And the climate experts that had asked, answered the previous one. Who arguably know the most about the possibilities that came in at 95%. So this is really important to understand why each of those groups answered the way that they did.

So if we actually look at the climate experts, their main reason for answering positively is because we have everything that we need. So from the climate experts perspective, they were, they have awareness about all of the things that we have, which are, we have the innovation, we have the science, we have the knowledge. We have what we need. It may not be scaled, but we have, we have what we need, we know how to do it. The overwhelming reason that young leaders answered that they believe that it's possible to reverse global warming is because they believe in humanity. Which is great. Because sometimes some of us don't right. Both of those things are really important and you'll actually see that the, the bulk of the reason for both climate experts in young leaders, they kind of have an inverse relationship there. So this is really important because as you can imagine, we can have all we need. But if we don't have the belief in it being possible, it's hard to act on what we have and then vice versa if we have all this belief. But we didn't have everything that we need, that would be a really hard place to be in. So both of these are really important and I think should actually change our mindset around the possibility of reversing global warming, which can feel very heavy. So this kind of sets up, of course, the answer that we want to ask. So what's getting in our way? And that's the next question so that if we had if we were all in a room together, I would ask for you to guess. But the biggest reason that respondents gave for this potentially not being a possibility is because of this powerful drug called business as usual. So we all know it, right? I don't like when the cereal is moved in the grocery store, I want to get in, I want to get out. I have young kids. They're dangling from me, asking me for this, that and the other thing, why was the cereal moved? Somebody give me a good reason. So this business as usual, is the hardest hurdle to overcome because people don't like having to do things in new ways by and large, and that is something that is required to make meaningful change. So one of the things that can get in our way is just this feeling of it being too overwhelming. You know, it's just too much to think about. I don't know where to start. And we really should start having more positive conversations with ourselves.

So I'm from Philly, you know, we love a good some, some negative language, some violent language sometimes. And a lot of the language around carbon emissions is negative or violent. So we were either trying to slash carbon emissions or there's a fight, we were fighting climate change, or there's a war on carbon. And really we want to change our relationship with carbon. We wanna start thinking about it in a different and more positive way. So that we can start having positive conversations with ourselves and then with others about the possibilities for us really addressing this global problem. So positivity, optimism, and belief are really important. And based on the survey, we actually should be having more positive, optimistic thoughts and more belief about the possibility that our efforts to change doing business as usual being worth it. So with that setup, we actually, we at interface actually kind of broke this whole idea down into four pillars. And I think it's really helpful because again, reversing global warming can seem really overwhelming. Should I? If I change one light bulb is that really [inaudible].

And so we broke it down into four pillars. And you all, I'm joining you from, from a university setting. And I think it's worth mentioning that that which we do in our personal lives, really pairs, pales in comparison that one light bulb changed, for example, at home or even 20 light bulbs, which actually did recently at my own home, pales in comparison to the scale of change that we can make when we make changes at work, everything is a greater scale. So if we decide to standardize on a different type of light bulb on campus or if we decide to, as we'll talk about today, Pay attention to the carbon footprint of everything that the university buys. That really changes in comparison to what we, for example, purchase in our personal lives. So let's break this down. The first pillar in thinking about how to take back our climate is to live 0. That means aiming for 0 negative impact on the environment. It's this world of continued reduction that we've already been doing. Probably whether you're at home trying to buy less stuff. Trying to use less energy, trying to create less waste, things like that. And then at the college level, it's about you know Zero Waste programs on campus or whatever it might be just aiming for reduction, reduction, reduction. That is living zero. Love carbon is different.

So when we're talking about slashing carbon emissions or having a war on carbon. This is actually new language for this conversation. So carbon, carbon emissions, carbon inherently isn't a bad thing. We are made of carbon, plants are made of carbon. We just have too much carbon in the wrong place. So how can we stop seeing carbon as an enemy? Something that we want to slash and start actually using it as a resource, using some of that waste carbon. It's that there's too much of in the atmosphere and actually bringing it back down, which is a really important part of this conversation. We both have to stop putting so much up, but we also need to pull what's up, down if we're going to, if we're going to reverse global warming. The third pillar is to lead the industrial re-revolution. So the industrial revolution in part is how we got here. We need to redefine the revolution. So this is all about getting off of that business as usual drug and redefining what the future looks like. And I think there's kind of no better time actually to do that. Then when everything has changed anyway, due to this global pandemic that we're in. So it's kind of interesting. So much has changed that it's probably easier to change a bit more than if we were just kind of continuing on the way that we were. And then let nature cool is all about supporting nature’s. Nature's natural ability to regulate the climate. So plants, trees, our oceans, already absorb carbon from the atmosphere. We've just overwhelmed her. So how can we help nature do more of what she does best? And that is the let nature cool pillar. So this just kinda breaks, breaks down different ways to think about this topic. So as mentioned in the beginning, Interface is a co-founder of the materials carbon Action Network. And for those of you who may be in the built environment or touched facilities in any way. You may recognize some of these names. What we wanted to do is interface going out there alone and saying that this is important, has a certain amount of weight to it. You know, we're recognized for our leadership and sustainability. But we wanted to get some, some friends in the industry who were working on this idea of reversing global warming. It thinking of how their impact can help in this cause Members of the building industry. So we got together with Gensler, which is a global, the largest global design firm. Skanska, which is a general contractor, I believe their second or third largest in the world.

Armstrong ceiling and wall solutions, which is one of the largest providers in the Americas of ceiling systems.

Certain keyed representing the installation category and US G representing wall border, which some of you may know it as dry wall. Really since starting this collaboration, we've added, I actually have to add a third logo here, superior Essex, that makes communications cabling, Kingspan, that makes insulated panels for the exterior buildings. And then also Assa Abloy, which is a security systems kind of door hardware manufacturer, kind of intelligent door hardware, if you will. So all of us got together to really amplify this idea of driving awareness and taking action on the highest impact aspect of energy consumption in the building industry. And I'll give some context to that as we go along. But before we go any further, I just want to really sensitize all of you to why this is important to people. There are definitely people out there. I'm one of them who care about carbon emissions and melting glaciers and polar bears and things like that. But that doesn't get everyone up in the morning. That doesn't get everyone motivated to take action in an urgent way. And according to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, IPCC, we have at this point less than a decade to make significant progress on reversing global warming. So what happens in the next decade is really important. So it's really important to tie what all of this means to people themselves, their kids, their families, their communities. So I'm going to explain this slide which is from the Centers for Disease Control, the Centers for Disease Control or the CDC, as you know, if you didn't know them before, you certainly know them in the world of Covid. But they have really defined climate change as the greatest threat to human health of the 21st century. And this is a slide that actually kind of makes that case and make some connections that aren't obvious at first glance or, or as we understand them in our day-to-day lives. So this center wheel is appropriately turning. We're churning the environment. These are the things that we understand are associated with global warming. Things like rising temperatures, more extreme weather, and increasing CO2 levels. So those affect our environment, which then leads to the secondary wheel. Things that don't necessarily make the nightly news. So things like air pollution may make the nightly news in, in the Pacific Northwest. Dory post wildfires. But in general, air pollution and the slow changes in our air quality are not making nightly news, so we don't think about them regularly. Things like changes in vector ecology, almost, almost never on the news. These are, this is actually referring to insects. So as we have longer warmer seasons, insects have more of an opportunity to breed. And if we, if those insects are carrying infection or carrying diseases, there's more possibility of the infection of people. So again, we don't hear about it very often, very often, and it's slowly happening over time. Things like increasing allergens seasonally. We might hear about this, but not in general measurement over time. So what this leads to is what we do come in contact with things that we understand because someone in our family may be affected or we may be affected ourselves. The student population in Dallas may be affected, et cetera. So things like asthma. So climate change because it caused asthma, but it exacerbates asthma symptoms. Meaning that more people will feel more uncomfortable, more often. So less, less able to learn. If you're in the workplace, less productivity. We can tie a lot of this to, to test scores and learning outcomes, things like that. Lyme disease. This one's personal to me because my own mother was diagnosed with Lyme disease, which if you know anything about it, it's very hard to diagnose. Hers was caught too late for an antibiotic intervention therapy. And basically what that means is that she is just exhausted all of the time. Respiratory allergies, five plus years ago. I wasn't allergic to anything.

Now, all year long, I am never feeling a 100% from a respiratory perspective. And then even on the left side, things like forced migration and civil conflict. Where if I can't grow crops on my land anymore and I have to move my family. I may or may not have the means to do so. That obviously can lead to significant mental health impacts. So all of this, it's important as we think about how to lower carbon emissions. It's important to tie that work to positive health outcomes for our communities so that it is a lot more personal because this is happening every day. This is not I'm waiting for a storm to hit my area or something like that. This is literally every day affecting our health and our possibility for living a longer healthier life. So with that, I just want to kinda take us into the built environment. So this is an example of a project's carbon footprint. And by project in this context, we can be talking about a new building on campus. We can be talking about a renovation of an existing building on campus. This is a look at thinking about the carbon footprint in the early years. If we think about a building's lifecycle, say 80 to a 100 years. Over those 80 to a 100 years, the larger carbon impact is from operational emissions surely. But if we go back to my statement earlier about really needing to focus on the emissions that are happening in the next ten years, we start to really think about, think about this differently. So I would say in years one through three, Think about this iceberg visual. So the part of the iceberg that is above the water is what we can see, what we understand, what we already know, we have to reduce. This one's actually kind of easier because when we take carbon reduction strategies in their operations of buildings, usually we save money. There's usually a return on investment over x amount of time. That can make sense. What we're talking about today to raise awareness on is this part of the iceberg that is below the surface of the water. It's the larger part in the early years of a project in this, in this decade that we're focusing on. It is the greenhouse gas emissions that are associated with making every single thing that is specified or purchased. For a for a project, for a renovation. So the flooring, the drywall, the paint, the chairs, the tables, all of that has a carbon footprint associated with it. And those emissions are in the atmosphere just prior to the materials arriving on site. So all of that is a carbon footprint that cannot be reduced over time like operational emissions can. So this is indirect carbon emissions. So, you know, the community college does not obviously control these emissions, but they can influence them. So thinking about the carbon footprint before a product is specified, end or asking for carbon reduction strategies from the design firm or the contractor is one way of thinking about how to reduce those. And we can talk about that more as we go along. This is some research done by architecture 2030. This is looking at global new construction. So that's important to understand. This is new construction over the next 30 years. So much larger timeframe. And over 30 years for the global new construction, about half of the emissions will be tied to operational, and half from embodied carbon. And embodied carbon are those specified emissions that I'm talking about, those purchased emissions or you might also know the term scope three emissions. Scope 1 and 2 are what are directly controlled by the college. Or purchased energy. And then scope three is in the supply chain of the college. So this is just to show, you know, operational carbon. Again, we've been thinking about for a long time, but half of the impact over the next 30 years of any new construction is actually tied to embodied carbon. So just another kind of way of looking at this information to raise awareness and help prioritize. So the goal of materials, the materials carbon Action Network, is obviously to drive awareness like we're doing today. Share methodologies for what to do. Take action, obviously the most important part and expand the partnership. So for purposes of today, I would really focus on bullet points 2 and 3, Creating a methodology. Whether you're in procurement or facilities, or if you're thinking about anything that is going to include a supply chain for getting stuff on campus, whatever it is, copiers. How to think about the embodied carbon of that purchaser specification and then share that.

So share, if one department has done some work on thinking about this for a purchase, then share that with other departments for others at the college to use or even outside of the college. Highlight case studies on low carbon, carbon neutral and carbon sequestering. I say here interiors. But you can even think of this as buildings as well. This is what gets me up in the morning. The idea that the industry that we work in, the building industry can actually be part of the solution to reversing global warming.

Instead of just measuring how much less of the problem we can be, that is really exciting. It's the moonshot for what we're working towards. And we're really excited and eager to get others to come along on this journey with us. I'm going to show the how Next. I'm sorry, I think I meant to highlight so highlight case studies that I talked about that sorry, I thought I missed a bullet point there. So how do we do this? So there are these documents, they're really super exciting. You can read them on weekends just like I do on Saturday night with my family gathered around the fire 17 pages of data. But there's this really amazing nugget in these environmental product declarations. And these are very available for building materials, probably not for everything that the college would procure. So I don't know if they're available for copiers In that example. I don't know if they're available. They're certainly probably not available for all the pencils that you would buy or anything like that. But in the building industry, it's, this information is very available for materials that would be specified or purchased anyway. So it's a great place to start on actually carrying about the embodied carbon. So in the 17 page documents, there's an embodied carbon number. And the great thing about this is that there is a tool online that is available now where you don't have to read the 17 page documents. This is kinda the old way. The much more manual way. But if you pull this information out of these EPDs, You can compare. This is of course a beautiful version. But you can actually compare manufacturer's products against each other. And this historically really hasn't been done. So this is pretty groundbreaking, but this is third party verified information that is available from these publicly available EPDs. And this is just pulled out for the carpet tile category. Give you an example. So as you can see here, you can make some decisions whether you want to have and you might not have realized that you are purchasing the highest embodied carbon in this category. It's really amazing how high the carbon footprint can be without realizing it.

And the main reason for the carpet tile category is because of recycled nylon. So even in your homes, you might have, have nylon carpet. And you know, it's kind of this like really thin plastic that feels really soft to the touch. And it's kind of amazing how much energy it takes to make it. So if you're not paying attention and if you're not using recycled content, the embodied carbon of that material can be really high. Once you start to get on the left side of this graph, you start to notice that all of these materials have recycled content nylon. So that's kind of a great rule of thumb for this category, is to specify recycled content nylon. And as you go you can pick up these rules of thumb for different material categories in the same way. This is something that I'm really excited to share with you because two weeks ago we actually launched the world's first carbon negative, which is a positive thing, carpet tile. So if we, and this is kind of that moon shot that I was talking about to consider for, for all types of materials. So we've moved from having the lowest carbon footprint carpet tile available in the industry, to actually being able to provide a carpet tile that stores more carbon then was emitted during the manufacturer of the carpet tile, which is really amazing.

We call that cradle to gate, which is all the way from extracting the raw materials to when their product is ready to ship to the job site for us, the manufacturer in Georgia. So that's just prior to us sending it over to Texas. So this is, we've been excited internally to actually see this bar drop below, below the x-axis here. And actually measure carbon storage from the atmosphere, which is based on using plant-based materials that have that carbon stored, then stored in them. And then we interrupt the carbon cycle of them, degrading and releasing methane into the atmosphere and actually use that plant stored carbon to make our products. So super exciting innovation, we're just two weeks passed that happening. So really cool timing for this. So this is what this would look like for measuring it on a specific project basis. So this is what's called a tree diagram. And you would use a baseline scenario, maybe a nearby building, and what materials were used in that building. And then just by paying attention to the materials that get specified or purchased for a project. Don't be surprised if you see numbers like a 43% reduction. We're not talking about a pitly five or 7% reduction. It's really amazing once you start to prioritize this information and understand it, how much you can really reduce it. So if I were taking this strategy on a project, there are probably two slides from what I've shown you so far that I would use this one. And then the one from the CDC to show this reduction of 43% has tied back to positive health outcomes. So we're doing our part to not contribute to climate change. So that we can have a climate that's fit for life, especially people. And then this is a screenshot from a tool. It's available at building transparency.org and it is available for free. So you can go and register for free. You have immediate access to the tool. And there are nine material categories built out from construction materials like concrete and steel, I should say new construction materials to interior products like carpet, ceiling panels, gypsum, wallboard, and glass. So those nine material categories are built out. And there's a baseline that is in there. If you don't have your own baseline from a prior project, you can use the carbon leadership forums baseline, that's what CLF over here on the right stands for. That is, the carbon Leadership Forum at the University of Washington sets the baseline so that you can go in just for a first project and actually start playing around with what materials would make sense to use. And you can see a 59%, you see, in this case, achievable embodied carbon reduction target, which overshoots where that little t is in the yellow hatched area on the right, which is the target, was a 50% reduction. So as long as all the materials make it on the project that were specified and the embodied carbon reduction target would be 59%. So this makes it a lot easier than reading those EPDs. And someone at the college might use this, or one of the design firms or contractors or sustainability consultants that would be hired could also do this exercise and also be used for RFPs. So if you were deciding to standardize on some sort of material, whether it be gypsum, wallboard or ceilings or whatever. You could actually look in the tool and set a maximum carbon footprint threshold, while still allowing for competition of three manufacturers that could provide that material. So I'm happy if we have time and not to many questions. I'm happy to actually walk through a tool for how that would work. And then some of you may be familiar, hopefully with lead. Lead is a building certification system to design green buildings. And there was actually a pilot credit. Whether you're using lead or understand leader, not. This pilot credit really gives a great methodology for how to prioritize embodied carbon in materials. So even if you're not going for the credit, it really lays out a nice walkthrough of how you can do this on a project. And then just to for more information, I recommend these two books if you're interested in this topic. The first one is Draw Down. That is about way more than the built environment. It's actually a 100 solutions to reversing global warming. And really cool book because it reads like a magazine. Each, each solution just has two pages with some really great imagery. And you know, not acronym, heavy or super overly academic, really easy to understand. And a lot more interesting solutions than just like wind and solar, which would probably be expected. Some really interesting unexpected solutions that you can really dig your teeth into. And then for the built environment, specifically, the new carbon architecture came out a couple of years ago. And the first chapter is a really great education on embodied carbon. And then the rest of the book is really dedicated to understanding materials that naturally store carbon. So you can start to kinda look at materials and think, oh wow, this one would probably be, has a lot of natural materials that would probably be low and embodied carbon as long as it kind of hasn't been ruined with a lot of finishes applied to it that would then raise the embodied carbon. But just really interesting if you're interested in material science or, or anything like that, or especially if you're in the architecture facilities field. So with that, I just want to pause. I'm happy to walk through a demo of the tool if that's interesting to people. But I'm also happy to answer any questions that have come in which I may be able to find. But if not, someone can just let me know what questions we may have or comments, reactions to any of this material.

(Nancy Kammerer)

Thank you Lisa. We do have one question from Marge.

(Marge speaks) I have an EV electric car. I've heard the carbon emissions in manufacturing a car offsets the emissions saved. I'm not convinced. I think emissions over the life of my driving the car makes the big impact, especially Dallas. What do you say?

(Lisa Conway speaks)

Yes. So first of all, kudos for getting getting an electric car, we have issues with being able to charge them in Philly. So I'm, I'm kind of jealous. The carbon emissions in manufacturing a car, it's, it's actually kind of different. It's a, it's a cool question. So when we think about what I just presented to you, most of the impact is in creating the material, not using the material. So it's much more important to think about the embodied carbon. Now, when we talk about a car, the, it's the opposite. So the larger impact of a car is in its operation, not in its creation. So I think that you're on the right track in thinking that the emissions over the life of your car and using your car are much more important to think about in terms of in terms of whether it makes sense to buy an EV. So it definitely makes sense to buy an EV. And you're thinking about it in the right way. Absolutely.

(Nancy Kammerer speaks) Alright Lisa. Those are all the questions. If anyone has a question, please send it in, typing into the Q and A otherwise. Otherwise. Yeah.

(Lisa Conway speaks)

Otherwise, I'm happy to walk through the tool or you can have I had left some time for questions, so I have some more material or if if everybody needs a break, that's totally fine too. So anyone wants to drop in the chat? If you would definitely like to see that demo. I'm happy to do that.

(Nancy Kammerer speaks)

Well, why don't we move ahead. We still have time.

(Lisa Conway)

Okay. Cool. So I will show that. Let me just let me just pull it up. And if you're interested, then feel free to hang on. And I just have to stop sharing for 1 second. Let me just pull up my, my web address here. I'm glad that some people are finding the information useful. So thank you for those comments as well. Alright, and I think I can reshare and then Nancy if you can just let me know that you can see that.

(Nancy Kammerer speaks) We can see.

(Lisa Conway speaks)

Perfect. Okay, so I'm just here at building transparency. Actually let me start again so that you can just see. So this is where that tool is, the EC3 tool. So you can register for free. And like I said, you have immediate access. There's actually a lot of information that I just went through here at materials can because we're under the building transparency, non-profit umbrella. So if you'd like more information, more education on this topic. There's all kinds of, I can actually click on it. There's all kinds of information here from a manufacturer's perspective. This chart that I was showing. And then also how to calculate your material footprint. Educate yourself and lots of embodied carbon resources. So how to kind of a one pager for how to prioritize embodied carbon in your specification. A World Green Building Council report on embodied carbon. So just kinda goes on and on, just putting us all in one place.

There's also a really great CEO on climate, carbon, and human health that really makes that connection. So feel free to explore that, but I'm just going to sign in. And I think it's been most helpful when I'm talking to the higher education community. To really see how to navigate a specific material and see how that would show up in this tool for how you can use it for public bids, which is often a concern. For example, they're like, that's great that you have a carbon negative carpet tile, but I need three carbon negative carpet tiles if I'm going to specify that. So we understand that. So this is a really great tool for using that. So just go to find and compare materials. And I'm going to concentrate on carpet because I am really not good at navigating concrete. And I'm really just clicking on really basic things. So for a carpet, you really just need to know if you want to search for carpet tiles, which are carpet in squares or rectangles or broad loom, which is more of what you might have at home that kinda goes wall to wall.

So I'll just stick with titles and ones that are made in the US. Thought that's the only criteria that I have to put it in. You can put more in but you don't have to. And then if I hit search, what I'm going to see, walk you through a few things that this tool shows. So on the right here, it shows you that the highest carbon footprint carpet tile that's in here is 3.44. This is in kilograms of CO2 per square foot. You don't even need to worry about that. You can just think about high, medium, low. So that's high. The lowest it's any Here is 1.480. And then most of the carpet tiles that are avail available are between 0.751.64. So this is just really helpful to know. Okay, conservatively, I can have lots of competition below 1.6 for as a maximum carbon footprint threshold. I'm going to have less but still competition in this achievable range of 0.75. And this might be more of a proprietary speck of 1.48. So if you come down here, you can actually think of this just as an Excel spreadsheet that can be organized by lowest to highest. So I'm just, I just hit this. And why did I just hit this? And it'll organize all of the material from lowest to highest. So we can see here that this one actually has, oh, I'm sorry, I said 1.48, but it's actually a negative 1.48. So that's where that negative carpet tile comes in. So you can see that we go from negative 1.482. We can just kind of search, scroll down until we get some competition. So this one is a different manufacturer, but is not technically a carpet tile. It's what's called a hybrid resilient. So I'm gonna keep searching until I get to another carpet tile, which or another manufacturer I should say. It's awhile before we get toanother one here on page four. Okay, so now we have some other manufacturers.

So we see that Shaw's coming in here, Mohawk tar cat. So we can set with having three, we can set our maximum carbon footprint threshold at 1.2 kilograms of CO2 and still have a competitive bid. But make sure that we keep out kind of the worst of the worst from a carbon footprint perspective, kind of a fun fact. You might not get that excited about flooring, but carpet and MEP systems, which are mechanical, electrical, and plumbing systems, are two of the highest embodied carbon potential that can be included in a renovate in a renovation project. So it actually isn't that crazy to think about carpet really hard.

Which of course we do every day, but it is actually important to prioritize that material because it can be really hard. MEP systems are important but have a lot less data for the embodied carbon. They're really focused on how they can perform operationally over time. And that's usually what's shared from a data perspective too, actually make decisions between different systems. So, so that's just one of the ways that you can kind of use this tool. Another is to click on this compare button. And that can show you kind of the overview for all manufacturers. So we see Interface here goes from this neck carbon footprint up to 1.7 for the whole portfolio. Bentley, one of our competitors, the lowest is 1.35, the highest is 2.35. The majority falls within these green categories. So you can think of the highest and lowest more as outliers. And you can think of these green areas is where they have the most, the most options. So as you can see, it's just really helpful instead of being able to or having to read those long environmental product declarations, but still using that really awesome third-party verified information and to put it into a tool. And as you can see over here, there's a lot more product categories than flooring. I have kind of a special level of access because I'm on the board of a building transparency non-profit. So I can see which which materials are in pilot, but not in pilot. You can use it today for concrete, steel, aluminum would thermal and moisture protection, openings, ceiling panels, carpet. And then we're actually really close within the next 30 days to launching resilient flooring and also data cabling. So data cabling is another interesting one because you don't typically think about buying that are making decisions based on the embodied carbon of the cabling, but only maybe the operational and how it works. So it's just kind of adding that additional data point. It'll never be the only data point for making a decision. But right now it's not a datapoint at all. So we're helping to raise awareness on that throughout the industry. So I'll pause there. We just have three minutes left. So based on that little demo, if there are any questions or comments, happy to answer those. Looking in the chat here.

(Nancy Kammerer speaks)

We don't seem to have any questions. Okay, leadership communities at each campus would be awesome. Great. Well, I'll let everyone have their two minutes and thank you so much for your attention and interest in this topic. And if you ever I believe that my contact information is posted somewhere in the conference information, but you can feel free to look me up on LinkedIn as well. So thanks so much.

(Nancy Kammerer) Thank you Lisa.